Still Life With Kristine Claghorn
Still Life With Kristine Claghorn
Cultivating compassion and mindfulness in our every day.
I absolutely adore Kristine Claghorn, aka Claggie. She’s funny, she’s thoughtful, she’s adventurous, she doesn’t take herself too seriously, she’s kind, she’s incredibly wise and so much more. Several years ago, she pivoted her marketing skill set to focus on education and tools to help others live more impactful, compassionate lives. She’s a certified educator and facilitator of compassion and mindfulness through Stanford University’s CCARE. She has worked on several guides around topics like self-worth, combatting polarization, self-compassion, getting unstuck and nonviolent communication — and even wrote an e-book. The list goes on and on, but I’m so excited to get into our recent conversation. Below, Kristine shares bite-size tips to incorporate this data into our own daily lives, plus ideas for simple practices to keep our nervous systems calm, nourished and regulated.
We will be hosting a free, 30 minute self-compassion practice and meditation on Friday, February 9, 2024 from 9:30—10:00am PT. There is no cost to join, but please RSVP through the Zoom link here.
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Transcribed, edited and condensed from our conversation on January 16, 2024.
Elise: I’m a bit scattered this morning. Otto had a rough night and I was up with him — he has seizures regularly, and last night he was having tremors all hours of the night. It’s so sad because he gets so unsettled, jumps off the bed, and barks at nothing. His whole body will involuntarily jolt and shake. It is very disorienting and I feel a little off my game today.
How are you doing?
Kristine: I’m the same actually, I didn’t sleep super well. My dog Hazel had a tooth extracted yesterday and was at the vet from 8 in the morning ’til 5 in the evening. Like, why is it taking so long? It’s hard to be worrying about your pet.
Elise: I know, it’s so hard. Dog moms, lol!
Well, I’m super grateful to be here with you today and have been looking forward to this conversation.
Kristine: Me too. I leave tomorrow for Indiana to see my family.
Elise: I kind of want to just jump in with one of my favorite questions, which is: What’s one thing that’s going really well for you right now, and one thing you’re finding challenging?
Kristine: It's funny because my answers for both are connected to each other. I'm going to Indiana tomorrow, and this time last year my grandma was dying, so I went back home to be with her. I was there for almost a whole month, going to hospice to visit with her multiple times a day. Then she passed, and I stayed to help my grandpa grieve and plan the funeral. It’s been a year and I don’t want him to be alone during this time — he also recently broke his femur. He had surgery and is doing well, but he’s in a rehab center which happens to be the same place where my grandma was in hospice. So it kind of feels like this weird full circle, going back to the same place but to visit my grandpa this time.
Elise: Oh wow, that is a lot. And it’s the place where you said goodbye to your grandma.
Kristine: Yeah, it is such a strange feeling. I had just started my job at the Being Well podcast around that time last year, and had a few different work projects for several months. I’m finding myself kind of back in the same place which feels a little icky. I have to remember that a lot has changed in this past year, and I have a lot more tools to move through my feelings this time. It might even feel really special to be back in that place.
Elise: Yes, I hope it can feel healing for you in some ways, too.
Kristine: I hope so. That’s kind of where I’m at right now. What’s going really well is that my work has slowed down a bit — the three jobs I had have slowed down. I have more space to do all of the projects that I put on pause. It’s exciting but the flip side of that is feeling like, oh will it pick back up?
Elise: I totally get that. Will you get to do some fun stuff on your trip as well?
Kristine: My dad is one of seven, so I’ll be going back to see him and my stepmom as well, plus several of my cousins. And my best friend from high school still lives in Indiana, so we are planning to go thrifting together. The extended family is putting together a karaoke night, which should be fun, haha!
Then my dad and I are actually going to drive from Indiana to Texas. My brother lives in Texas and they haven’t seen each other in a while. So instead of me having multiple flights, we're driving fourteen hours. It’s going to be long, but I’m looking forward to some bonding time with my dad. And then in Texas I’ll be with my mom, brother and stepdad, which is relaxing for me. I always come back to LA feeling invigorated and ready to get a lot done.
Elise: I don’t know much about your family dynamic, but do you do anything to prepare yourself for time with them in that way?
Kristine: I’m really lucky with that, because I feel very comfortable around both of my parents, and even my stepparents. They got remarried once I was already an adult, so I didn’t grow up with stepparents but they are really nice.
Both of my parents are easygoing, and we have the same views on a lot of things. It’s so helpful especially with how polarizing things are these days. It’s a safe space. And my brother lives with my mom — he’s been chronically ill with ME/CFS since he was 15, about half of his life. So I enjoy being able to visit and spend uninterrupted time together. He and I have the same sense of humor and are really similar.
Elise: That’s so great to hear. I hope it’s a really life-giving trip — it sounds like there will be a lot of different feelings to navigate.
Kristine: Thank you, I’m really looking forward to it. And honestly, I'm fine with the hard feelings too.
Elise: Yes, it’s all an important part of life. Without the hard things, there wouldn’t be the other side of that either.
Kristine: Exactly. If I didn't have the incredible love of my grandma, I wouldn’t be grieving and that would be sad. Her love was so special to me, and it’s worth the hard feelings. She lived a long and happy life.
Elise: I’ve been struggling with feeling stuck lately, maybe it’s the pressure of the new year. As much as I love a symbolic fresh start, I am definitely leaning into winter and hibernation mode, maybe a bit too much. January is often a struggle for me. Do you have any tips or suggestions for getting un-stuck?
Kristine: It’s so important for our bodies to rest and slow down. I can relate to that struggle and the in-between time. For example, going from three jobs where I didn’t have the space to do my own thing to now having some space, I’m like, oh I should probably do all these other things, but my body is telling me to rest.
I think what I've really noticed with the work that I do, especially when it comes to January and resolutions, is that people create all these lofty goals. They want to change their lives! A lot of the time when we’re choosing areas that we want to change, we choose things we don’t even enjoy. For instance, I’m going to be on my phone less. I’m going to watch less Netflix. I’m going to read more nonfiction. I’m going to lift weights and work out. You're basically telling yourself to stop doing something you like, and to replace it with something you don't like… the podcast I work for just talked about this (you can listen here). It's never going to work that way, and ends up producing a lot of shame and criticism. When we criticize ourselves, the brain interprets it in the same way it interprets a threat, and we go into fight-or-flight.
Elise: Yes, survival mode!
Kristine: You go into this survival mode — your threat defense system, or the reptilian brain, perceives it as danger. So the first reaction that you're going to have when things go wrong is self-criticism, and then you shut down. Which means you can't even do the goal to begin with.
Elise: Or maybe can’t even accomplish any of the other usual things you were trying to do at the time.
Kristine: Exactly, then you curl up in a ball and can’t do anything. That cycle of self-criticism gets you stuck in fight-flight-freeze, which leads to burnout or chronic stress. We have to find ways to break it because we won’t be productive or do anything positive for ourselves there.
Self-compassion is one of those ways — actually treating yourself the way that you would treat a friend that comes to you and says, “I failed. I’m not getting the stuff done that I wanted to get done.” You wouldn’t say to them, “Oh, you suck and you’re a failure.”
Elise: What’s a good way to practice self-compassion?
Kristine: That’s a great question, and I can lead you through a practice on this later. I think it’s helpful to consider that there are three aspects to self-compassion. They focus on a positive pull, as opposed to the negative way in which we usually treat ourselves — kindness versus self-judgement, mindfulness versus over-identification or rumination, and common humanity versus isolation.
You can go through these three things instead of judging yourself. If you get fired from a job, you may be like, “I can’t believe this happened to me. I’m so stupid. I’m such a failure.” Self-kindness would say, “This is really hard.” Even putting your hand on your heart and saying “This doesn’t feel good. What can I do to make myself feel better? What can I do so that this doesn’t happen next time?” You don’t have to feel sorry for yourself — it can be action-oriented, too, taking steps to improve that are not rooted in criticism or judgement. “I want to better myself because I care about myself.”
Elise: Oof, this is so good.
Kristine: When I learned about the common humanity aspect, it was one of the most powerful things. Usually when we’re going through a hard time we think, “Why is this happening to me?” We feel isolated and alone. We have to remember that suffering is a part of the human condition, and most likely what we are going through is something that hundreds or thousands or millions of people have also experienced. Whether it’s heartbreak or grief or losing a job, others have experienced this, too. State to yourself, “I am not alone. Other people experience this too.” It helps to take the weight off a bit.
And the mindfulness aspect involves naming without judging. “I’m feeling stress.” That’s it — you don’t need to say why or over-examine it, just state what is going on. Even something like “My chest feels tight” or “I feel sick to my stomach.” Allow yourself to see what’s happening, without trying to overthink or judge it.
These are the three parts to self-compassion.
Elise: This is such a helpful reminder. I’ve been on my own self care journey, investing in my mental and emotional health more extensively these past few years. It’s so easy for me to find myself struggling and try to overanalyze and peel back all the layers. I feel this need to immediately unpack it all, and usually end up making myself feel worse and continuing the cycle.
I love the idea of pausing and putting my hand on my heart — even just doing that right now — I feel more calm. It’s an act of love towards myself and helps ground me in the present, letting the difficult feeling be okay.
Kristine: Exactly. It releases oxytocin in the brain — there’s a lot of research behind it. In this line of work (within the wellness or spiritual space), things can sometimes feel very woo-woo. Like, if you do this, you’ll be able to change your life in ten days! That doesn’t resonate with me. I want to know the science behind it, I want to see the research and data. It’s what I enjoy the most.
There is so much evidence that shows how things like mindfulness and self-compassion help with depression and anxiety. It’s retraining our brains to get out of the negativity bias. That is how we survived back in the day when lions were a threat. Every twig snapping or every step coming towards you meant that you could be dead. Our brains are still wired like that. I remember reading about how it takes five good things to make up for one negative thing.
Elise: That’s so fascinating.
Kristine: I think it was the Gottmans who did research on that, and how it plays out in a relationship.
Elise: Oh, I love them.
Kristine: I love them so much. Their books are so good. And I just listened to an old Brené Brown episode with them that is great. She also has one with Esther Perel that I’d recommend, too.
Elise: I will include the links to those, thank you.
I love your newsletter — you are such a great writer and communicator. You’ve written an e-book on navigating burnout, imposter syndrome, difficult conversations and so on — what are some of the most meaningful things you have personally taken away from your research and education on these topics?
Kristine: I wrote an e-book called Taking Compassionate Action, and it's about moving through stress and burnout, even navigating difficult conversations and conflict, to ultimately create resilience and positive change in your life. I didn't write it as an expert — when I started writing, I was doing it for myself because I was personally super burned out.
Elise: Ha! Isn’t that how these things usually go? Therapists often say that, too, like they got into therapy because of the desire to better understand their own shit.
Kristine: Totally. For me, this was pre-2020. I worked at an ad agency startup in marketing, and then when 2020 happened, the startup tanked and I got laid off.
I kept thinking about what I wanted to do, but there was so much stuff happening all at once. The pandemic. California was on fire — I couldn’t go outside or open the windows, everything was orange from the glow. Australia and Canada were also on fire. Then there was George Floyd and Breonna Taylor’s deaths. Everything felt like too much. I remember trying to distract myself by going on Instagram, and everyone there was so angry. There was so much performative posting, and pressure like, “If you don't share this, then you don't care.”
That didn’t feel helpful at all. I was not even personally affected by a lot of the things that were happening. I’m safe in my apartment, I have a place to live, I have a great partner. I can afford things. I’m not afraid that someone is going to kill me. And yet, I still couldn’t get myself out of bed. I couldn’t figure out what to do.
Around that time, I heard or read something about compassion that really struck me. I had always just thought about compassion like empathy, but learning that compassion is very action-oriented made so much sense. It’s less of a soft skill and more of a hard skill — taking steps to make change, for yourself or for others. It’s directly tied to suffering. We have compassion in us innately, but we can also learn to build and strengthen it.
I was raised where self-criticism was just the norm. I also think, as women, we look in the media and hear, “Oh, you have one wrinkle? Fix that.” Or “Your boobs are too small.” And “You’re a stay-at-home mom? You should have a job.” Even the working moms get criticized for not being home enough. We can’t seem to do anything right, and there’s a lot of space for beating ourselves up.
When I was in school in the 90s and early 2000s, teaching kids about self-esteem was important. But it was tied to the need to succeed, so that when we failed, we weren’t set up to learn from it. We ended up in constant competition with ourselves and everyone else around us. Rivalry closes doors to a lot of connection.
Elise: It really does. I closed my retail shop almost five years ago, and only recently realized how much my self-esteem and self-worth was tied up in that. I was definitely subconsciously taught that my worth is tethered to exterior successes, or that being “busy” equated to accomplishment in some way.
Kristine: And then it’s like, if the thing you worked towards doesn't end up working out, you’ve lost your identity or anchor. The truth is: you’re enough just by existing. I had never thought about that for myself before.
I remember the first time I did a practice around this, in my first compassion course. We were all in lockdown and on Zoom. It was me and an older man — he was actually in Indiana. We basically each had three minutes to share something that was challenging for us, and we weren’t allowed to respond to each other. I thought it was going to be so awkward. I ended up sharing that I had been laid off and was feeling a sense of failure and fear of what to do next or how to start over. Just by having that person be present with me and not try to fix it was so powerful. He sat there and listened, and then he shared. His mother was sick with Covid and she was dying in the hospital.
It put things into perspective quickly, and made what I was struggling with look so small. But I couldn't say that. I could only listen to him. At the end, we looked at each other in silence for a bit and then said, “You are enough just as you are.” It sounds really cheesy, but in that moment, I felt I was bonded in some way to this man for life.
Elise: Wow, especially to do that with a stranger, and to cultivate a safe and vulnerable space for each other. You just had to show up and listen.
Kristine: It naturally led me into taking some nonviolent communication trainings, which is obviously so good for personal relationships. But it also works with bridging the divide in what’s happening in our country and our world. There’s so much polarization and hatred.
This older man from Indiana, for all I know, could have been on the opposite end of the political spectrum. He may have had different views than me. But at our core, we both share the same human experience of suffering, of wanting to be happy, of wanting to be loved. These kinds of practices not only help with building your individual self-worth, but also building relationships and humanizing others, which is so needed right now.
Elise: In Nashville, I used to attend regular dharma talks and meditations. The teacher defined meditation as “relaxed, embodied awareness,” which always stuck with me and I still find it so beautiful. How would you define mindfulness? I feel like that word can be so broad.
Kristine: If I boiled it down to just one word, I would say “non-resistance."
Elise: I love that. Where’s a good place to dive more into mindfulness specifically — are there any helpful resources, teachings or practices you can point us to?
Kristine: If you bring mindfulness into self-compassion, it involves being aware of a painful experience, and the balance that neither ignores, avoids, exaggerates or judges it. It’s really about having a certain quality of attention, and accepting what is happening without getting lost in the perceived good or bad. You know, we struggle so much to be present and live our moment-to-moment experiences, and mindfulness really is so simple. It’s a way to slow down and do just that, and reconfigure our brain to not go deeper than it needs to.
Elise: Absolutely. It’s a way to acknowledge and validate — not ignore or suppress, which I think is too easy to do amidst our busy lives.
Kristine: Every moment passes. It doesn’t mean that it always makes things easier, but it does help with challenging moments. There’s a book called Burnout by Emily Nagoski, Ph.D. and Amelia Nagoski, D.M.A. They have a lot of research about how when you don't feel your feelings, they end up somewhere in your body and cause health problems. I believe being able to name the feeling is important, because we’re not always going to be able to process our emotions immediately. Mindfulness is the first step for moving through something and allowing yourself to be present in the moment.
Elise: That reminds me of one of your graphics that I love, about reaction versus response. That's been a big thing for me recently.
Kristine: Yes. If something happens, you can react immediately. But if something happens and you practice mindfulness, then you can respond.
Elise: I was raised around a lot of reactivity, and I think it took me a very long time to be aware of that. I’m grateful to have a partner who is so steady and patient with me. It’s really helped me to pause and take my time with things. If we are arguing I can say, “I want to talk more about this, but I’m feeling reactive and need some time to sit with my feelings first.”
Kristine: It sounds so simple, but a lot of people aren’t even able to get to that step. I feel like my nervous system gets jacked up so easily and it can be hard to settle it down.
Elise: I was having a lot of unexplained skin issues and rashes years ago, that I now believe were connected to anger and rage. I went to all types of doctors and specialists, tried creams and pills and reiki and acupuncture, but until I addressed some deeper wounds and emotions (that I had been afraid to look at), I wasn’t able to get it under control. It’s interesting how things like stress and anger can have such a physical effect.
Kristine: Anger is one of the emotions, especially for women, that we're taught never to feel.
Elise: We’re taught that it’s dangerous.
Kristine: Yeah, that it's dangerous or not becoming. I can definitely relate to that, having been in an abusive relationship in the past. I still have a lot of anger tied to the things that trigger me. Anger is really hard to figure out how to express in a healthy manner. When we’re little, we scream and cry or punch a pillow, you know, and we release it. But as adults, we've kind of lost touch with how to do a lot of those things. My therapist at one point was like, “Do you have a trampoline?”
Elise: A trampoline! That’s a good idea.
Kristine: Even going for a walk — that bilateral stimulation of left, right, left, right. It’s really good. If you ever feel a panic attack coming on, take something in your hands and pass it back and forth, left to right. It stimulates both hemispheres of the brain, and when you’re having a panic attack, there is one hemisphere that’s on overdrive.
Elise: That’s so simple. How do you stay connected to nature in everyday life, and how does that tie into compassion and mindfulness for you?
Kristine: Nature is so important, and I do sometimes feel a lack of it living in a big city. I grew up on seven acres of woods with creeks in my yard. I was always outside and never had shoes on. I think the biggest way that I keep in touch with it is by having a dog. Going on a walk with my dog and letting her sniff all the things, five minutes at the same bush. It can be so tempting to pull her along and keep going, but watching and experiencing that presence is so nice.
Something else that I like to do, like when we couldn’t go outside without breathing in smoke because of wildfires, is standard in a lot of compassion meditations. So while you have your eyes closed, bring to mind a compassionate image — it can be a person, it can be your pet, something religious or spiritual, something from nature. It could even be the sun, which shines its light on everyone without judgement. For me, it’s an ancient tree that is firmly rooted in the ground, like the Redwoods up in Northern California.
I picture myself at the foot of a tree, underneath the foliage, maybe touching the bark or sitting next to water. Savoring that image for a few moments can be really helpful. It turns on the same areas of the brain that it would if I were actually out in nature. You could even have a person there with you — sometimes my grandma might pop up and sit beside the tree with me. It’s very relaxing, and especially helpful when you can’t get outside.
Elise: Beautiful. Those practices and meditations can be so powerful.
I’m taking a bit of a left turn here, but I always look to you for sustainability tips, great vintage hauls and more (and clearly, so does TikTok with your almost 40k followers!). What’s your favorite vintage find ever? Can you share any secrets for sourcing?
Kristine: It’s funny because I haven’t quite figured out how to merge these worlds — I have this compassion identity that I want to share more about online, but on TikTok and Instagram I also enjoy sharing my thrifting adventures. How do I meld those together?
When it comes down to it, at the thrift store I'm practicing mindfulness constantly because I'm literally not thinking about anything. I'm in the moment, and it’s a dopamine rush when I find something really amazing. I also go to the same store regularly, so I’ve gotten to know some of the employees and have great conversations with them. It gives me human connection. I've even run into people that follow me on TikTok at the thrift store before.
Elise: That’s so cute!
Kristine: Sometimes I feel embarrassed, but it’s also really sweet. I ran into a mom and her daughter, and the daughter followed me. We ended up going back and forth, what do you think about this? And it was so fun.
I found the perfect pair of denim last week. I had just ordered a few pairs online to try, and none of them were perfect. The next day I went thrifting and found this brand from the 70s — they are a dark wash with a cuff, but I could also get them hemmed for a different look. I always bring a tape measure with me, and when I got home, I tried them on and they were ten times better than any of the expensive ones. They only cost me $9.
Elise: That’s amazing, and quite the dopamine rush. It's like, you have to go through a lot of junk to find the good stuff. And that's very symbolic for life, too — a lot of life is hard, and there's a lot of “junk” and struggles and challenges, but there's also so much beauty. Especially when you take the time to dig a little deeper.
Kristine: Yes, and I always love to think about who might have had this piece before me. What was their life like?
I think my biggest tip actually relates to what you just said. People ask how I find so much good stuff, complaining that all their local shops are filled with Forever21. That’s the case for me too, but I stay for three hours. I look at every single aisle. I go at a specific time of day (usually after lunch) when they bring out new pieces and racks. Being consistent and visiting often also helps me learn to say no to things, too.
Elise: What’s coming up for you in this next season? Any new projects that you’re excited about?
Kristine: I have a lot of interests and find myself trying to do them all at once. I've been working at Stanford University’s Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education (CCARE). It's such a mouthful to say, but I've been really enjoying that.
I'm also starting to offer coaching and consulting. It’s been hard for me to get to a place where I felt confident enough to do it. I keep getting more education, more training, more certifications, yet I worry that it’s not enough. I talked with an incredible career coach, Jamie Lee, and she encouraged me to just get started. I deal with a lot of imposter syndrome but have learned how to move through it.
Elise: I’m so excited for you, and know firsthand that you have so much to offer.
Kristine: Change is hard, whether it's good or bad. Our brains are always trying to keep us in this homeostasis, but we are resilient.
I’m opening up coaching for individuals who are feeling stuck, burned out, or caught up in stress and self-criticism. I use tools like neuroplasticity and self-compassion, nervous system regulation, and mindfulness to improve people's self-worth. We all feel stuck at certain times.
I also work with people in relationships — whether it's couples, friendships, or coworkers, to navigate conflict in a way that allows both to feel heard and understood. We work to identify the needs beneath the words so that we can lead through connection. It’s kind of like mediation, but in a nonviolent communication realm. I’m also creating a journal that’s about a third of the way complete.
Elise: That’s inspiring! It’s been so cool to watch you explore new ideas and build deeper trust with yourself along the way. This conversation has been helpful for me and honestly, it’s really lifted my spirits. You’ve provided new tools for me to implement in my own life. Thank you.
Kristine: That's so kind, thanks. It feels like a hug. The moment we met and hung out for the first time years ago, I was like, this is a safe space.
Elise: You radiate such warmth and authenticity. This has been so special and I’m looking forward to transcribing it so I can relive your words again. Have a wonderful trip, Kristine.
Kristine Claghorn has so kindly offered a virtual meditation for this community, and I hope you will join us. She will be leading us through a free, 30 minute self-compassion practice and meditation on Friday, February 9, 2024 from 9:30—10:00am PT. There is no cost to join, but please RSVP through the Zoom link here.
Credits: All photos and graphics by Kristine Claghorn and Mark Harrison. If you are interested in working with Kristine, you can email her at kristine@claggie.com.